Liu Xin attended a CGTN interview hours after her 16 minutes conversation with Fox News host Trish Regan. She recalled, “I said what I wanted to say. I guess technically they heard it, whether they understood me, whether they agreed with me, or to what extend they agreed with me, I have no idea. I hope at least what I said would stay with them a little bit, that at least they would think about it a little bit, and then we’ll see.”
“In the beginning, you said it was a debate. Actually I never thought, I’ve never wanted it to be a debate. I agreed to it, but it’s actually a debate with quotation marks. Because a debate is where you go to a third place with an independent moderator, you have a timer, you open, she opens, and then .. but we had..when I said I’d like to appear as a guest in your a show, basically I was offering to have a conversation.”
Liu Xin said, “So I never approached it as a kind of confrontation or tit-for-tat, intellectual debate, but really just a chat. And I think I did it. At least from my understanding, that’s what happened.”
This is surely not a debate, only a polite exchange of views between two girls, therefore there is no winner or loser.
The last few minutes, Trish Regan was even dragged along by eloquent Liu Xin who is really speaking for the Communist Party, not as what she has claimed to represent only herself as an individual.
Kind-hearted Trish does not want to embarass Liu Xin too much, but she has lost her interest in any further “reading from a book” discussion with Liu Xin. Maybe that’s why the conversation is short.
I don’t want to criticize or comment negatively on Liu Xin as she was truly remarkable as a television host. She has to talk that way, otherwise her career or even her life could be in danger!
Only that she is working for the evils, and she has no better choice, at least not for now. She can still make a good TV host in a new China without the vicious Communist Party.
China is a great country, and Chinese are hard working and intelligent people. There is nothing bad about the Chinese people in terms of human race or color. The only problem is with the Chinese Communist Party, an alien demon.
Liu Xin denies her CCP membership, and that’s enough. If there is a loser here, the CCP is the only loser. Even Liu Xin keeps away or was told to keep away from it.
China could be much better without the rule of the Communist Party. And this day is drawing near.
Following is the full text of the dialogue between Liu Xin and Trish Regan on Fox Business News:
Trish Regan: Tonight, I have a special guest join me all the way from Beijing China, to discuss the challenges of trade between the U.S. and her home country. She’s a host of the Prime Time English Language Television Program overseen by the CCP, Chinese Communist Party. She knows, I don’t agree with her on everything, I believe this really is actually an opportunity, an opportunity to hear a very different view.
As these trade negotiations stall out, it’s helpful. You know how the Chinese Communist Party is thinking about trade, and about the United States. In the interest of transparency, I shall explain that I don’t speak for anyone but myself, as a host of Fox Business show; my guest, however, is part of the CCP. And that’s fine.
As I said, I welcome different perspective on this show. With all that in mind, I am very pleased tonight to welcome Liu Xin, host of the Prime Time Opinion Program “The Point with Liu Xin”, to Trish Prime Time tonight.
And just quickly to the viewers who have spared with us as we have the significant time delay in our satellite between Beijing and the U.S, and because of that, it’s very bad not to speak over with each other. But Xin, welcome! It’s good to have you here.
Liu Xin: Thank you, Trish. Thank you Trish for having me. It’s a great opportunity for me. Unprecedented, I’ve never dreamed that I would have this kind of opportunity to speak to you and to speak to many audiences in ordinary households in the United States.
Trish, I need to correct, because, Trish, I have to get it straight. I am not a member of the Communist Party of China. This is on the record, so please don’t assume that I’m a member, and I don’t speak for the Communist Party of China and I’m here today, only speaking for myself as Liu Xin, a journalist working for CGTN.
Trish Regan: What’s your current assessment of where the trade talks actually lead? Do you believe…give me a current assessment of where we are on these trade talks? Do you believe a deal? Is it possible?
Liu Xin: It’s true, the satellite can make this not very good, but I believe you are asking me where we are in terms of the trade negotiations?
I don’t know. I don’t have any insider information. What I knew was the talks were not very successful last time they were going on in the United States. But now I think both sides are considering what to go next.
But I think China has made it …the Chinese government has made its position very clear that unless the United States treats the Chinese negotiating team with respect and show the willingness to talk without using outside pressure. And there is high possibility that there could be a productive trade deal. Otherwise, I think we might be facing a prolonged period of problems for both.
Trish Regan: I would stress that trade wars are never good. They’re not good for anyone. So I want to believe, Xin, I want to believe that something can get done. And these are certainly challenging times. I realize there is a lot of rhetoric out there, but let me turn to one of the biggest issues and that’s intellectual property rights. And fundamentally, I think we all agree it’s never right to take something that is not yours. And you have been going into some of those cases…cases of the independent World Trade Organization, the WTO … the Chinese is a member of it…as well as the DOJ and FBI cases…you can actually see some of them are on the screen right now.
There is evidence that China has sought an enormous amount of intellectual property, hundreds of billions of dollars worth now. That’s a lot of money, but truly I guess we shouldn’t really care the hundreds of billions of dollars are just fifty cents. How do American businesses operate in China? Is there a risk of having their property, their ideas, their hard work stolen?
Liu Xin: Well I think Trish, you have to ask American businesses whether they want to come to China, whether they find coming to China and cooperating with Chinese businesses have not been profitable or not. Then they will tell you their answers.
As far as I understand, many American companies have been established in China and they are very profitable and the great majority of them, I believe, plan to continue to invest in China and explore the Chinese market. Well now, U.S. President Donald Trump’s tariff makes it a little bit more difficult, makes the future a little bit uncertain. I do not deny that there are IP infringements, there are copyright issues, or there are piracy or even thefts of commercial secrets. I think that is something that has to be dealt with. And I think the Chinese government and the Chinese people and me as an individual…I think there is a consensus because without the protection of IP rights, nobody, no country, no individual can be stronger, can develop itself. So I think that’s a very clear consensus in the Chinese society.
And of course, there are cases where individuals, where companies go and steal. And I think that’s a common practice from probably every part of the world. There are companies in the United States who sue each other all the time over infringement on IP rights and you can’t say simply because these cases are happening…that America is stealing or China is stealing or the Chinese people are stealing. And basically that’s the reason why the battle …I think this kind of blanket statement is really not helpful. Really not helpful.
Trish Regan: It’s not just a statement. It’s multiple reports including evidence from the WTO. Well let me ask you about Huawei. That’s the headlines right now.
Liu Xin: Sure, I don’t deny…. neither.
Trish Regan: Look, I said, we can’t all agree. But if you are going to do business with someone, it has to base on trust. And you don’t want anyone stealing your valuable information you spent decades working on. Anyway, China passed a law in 2017 requesting tech companies to work with the military and the government. So it’s not just individual companies, right, that might be getting access to this technology? The government itself was a interesting new-ons. But I guess China is upset that Huawei’s not been welcomed into the U.S. market.
Let me just ask you this. It is an interesting way to think about it. What if we say, “Hey! You know sure, Huawei! Come on in! But here’s the deal: You must share all those incredible technological advances you have been working on; you’ve got to share it with us!” Would that be OK?
Liu Xin: I think if it is through cooperation…if it is through mutual learning…if it is through…if you pay for the use of this IP, or of this high technology, I think it’s absolutely fine. Why not? We all prosper because we learn from each other.
I learn English because I had an American teacher. I learn English because I had an American friend. I still learn how to do journalism because I have an American copy editor or editors. So I think that’s fine as long as it is not illegal. Everybody shall do that, and that’s how we get better, right?
Trish Regan: But you mentioned something really important which is that you should pay for the acquisition of that. Look, I think that the liberalized economic rules in which we live have valued intellectual property and it’s governed by a set of laws. And we all need a kind of play by the rules and play by those laws if we are going to have that kind of trust between each other. But I think you bring up some good points.
Let me turn to China right now, which is now Woo- the second largest economy. At what point would China abandon its developing nation status and stop borrowing from the World Bank?
Liu Xin: Well I think this kind of discussion is going on. And I heard of very live discussions about this. Indeed there are people talking about China already becoming so big. Why don’t you just grow up… basically I think you said in your program “China’s Grown Up”. I think we want to grow up, we don’t want to be, you know, dwarfed or poor or under-developed all the time. But it depends on how you define developing countries right?
If you have looked at China’s overall size…the overall size of the Chinese economy…yes! We are very big – the world’s number one- but don’t forget we have 1.4 billion people. That is over three times the population of the United States. So if you divide the second largest overall economy in the world, basically when it comes to per capita GDP, we are, I think, less than one sixth of the United States.
And even less than some of the more developed countries in Europe. So you tell me where we shall put ourselves. This is a very complicated issue, because per capita as I said it is small, but overall it is very big. So we can’t do a lot of big things than people are looking up …looking upon us to do much more around the world.
So I think we are doing that. We are contributing to the United Nations…we are the biggest contributor to the UN human peace keeping missions. We are giving out donations in humanitarian aid and all of that because we know we have to grow up and Trish, thank you for that reminder.
Trish Regan: Let’s get to the tariffs. I have seen some of your commentaries. Xin, I appreciate that you think China could lower some of its tariffs. I watch to say that and I am totally in agreement with you.
In 2016, the average tariff effectively taxed was charged on Americans with China 9.9%. And that’s three times the U.S. was charging. What do you say about this? What do you think about “Hey！About these tariffs. Let’s get rid of them all together.” Would that work?
Liu Xin: I think that would be a wonderful idea. I mean don’t you think for American consumers, products from China could be even cheaper and for consumers in China products from America could be so much cheaper too. I think that would be a wonderful idea. I think we should work towards that.
But you know, you talk about rule-based system, rule-based order, this is the thing: if you want to change the rules, it has to be done on mutual consensus. Basically we talk about tariffs, it is not just between China and the United States. I understand if your lower tariffs just between China and the United States, the Europeans will come, the Venezuela will come and say “Hey, we want the same tariffs. You can’t discriminate between countries”.
So it is a very complicated settlement to reach and the largest agreement that China and …about trade, yes, I am talking about tariffs. I think the last time when the world agreed on the kind of tariffs reduction China is committed to was exactly the result of multilateral, years of difficult negotiations.
The United States sought its own interests and decided to what degree they can agree, and nobody can put a gun at their head. And China agreed, although with some difficulties, to lower our tariffs considerably. It is all the decisions of countries according to their own interests. Now things are different, I agree.
Twenty years later, what are we going to do? Maybe these old rules need to be changed. You know what? Let’s talk about it. Let’s do it according to the rules. If you don’t like the rules, change the rules. But then it has to be a multinational, a multilateral decision, process.
Trish Regan: You can go back to the Trade Agreement of 1974, Section 301. There is a rule that enables the United States to use tariffs to try to influence behaviors of China, if we should take it seriously of China stealing our intellectual property. I think in some way it’s part of what this has come back to me it is the sense of trust.
I hear you on the forced technology transfer. Some American companies perhaps made some mistakes in terms of being willing to overlook what they might have to give up, in your term. But this is an issue, I think, where the country as a whole needs to step in.
We have seen the United States do that, perhaps in a way it hasn’t happened. But it’s been in the background. Don’t get me wrong. I think previous administrations have identified the challenge but have really been unwilling to take it on. And so we are living in these very different times.
How do you define state capitalism? Your system of economy is very interesting. You have a capitalist system, right? But it’s state-run. So talk to us about that? How do you define it?
Liu Xin: Well, we would like to define it as socialism with Chinese characteristics where the market forces are expected to play the dominating or deciding role in the allocation of resources.
It’s basically, you know, let the market, we want it to be a market economy, but there are some Chinese characteristics. For instance, some state-own enterprises which are playing an important but increasingly smaller role maybe in the economy.
Everybody thinks that China’s economy is state-owned, everything is state-controlled, everything is state, state, state. But let me tell you that is not the true picture. If you look at the statistics, for instance, 80 per cent of Chinese employees were employed by private enterprises. And 80 per cent of Chinese exports were done by private companies, or produced by private companies. About 65% of technological innovation were achieved, were carried out by private enterprises. Some of the largest companies that affect our lives, for instance, some internet companies, some 5G technology companies.. they are private companies.
So we are a socialist economy with Chinese characteristics …not everything is state-controlled, it’s not like that. We are quite mixed, very dynamic and actually very very open as well.
Trish Regan: Well I think you need to probably keep it open. As a free trade person myself, I think that’s a direction to pursue. And ultimately that leads to greater economic prosperity for you and better economic prosperity for us. Then you get a win-win. But …
Liu Xin: Absolutely.
Trish Regan: It’s interesting. I appreciate your being here. Thank you.
Liu Xin: Thank you so much. If you want to have discussions in the future, we can do that. If you want to come to China, we are welcome. I will take you around. Thank you for the opportunity! Thank you so much!
Trish Regan: No one wants a trade war but we have to think long and hard about our next steps.
By Winnie Troppie